Vacation

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dparmet
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Vacation

Post by dparmet » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:26 pm

One thing that is definitely lacking from this website is the ability to use vacation time. Just to set yourself hey i'm away! Every other corr site I know of has this with at least 14 days of vacation and some as many as 40 days. How hard would it be to implement this crucial feature?

gmiller
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Post by gmiller » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:45 pm

It's not something that's been overlooked, but something specifically not implemented out of courtesy to players that schedule around their vacations. The premise is that you pretty much know when you'll be on vacation and should only start games with time controls long enough to accommodate it.
Greg Miller

dparmet
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Post by dparmet » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:43 pm

In this case then its been erroneously overlooked. It is completely essential to any correspodence site. For example, I had to stop starting new games back in JANUARY because I was going to be gone the month of July. Even as it was I two games didn't finish but I had 32 days on my clock. So I made it back with a few hours on each to punch out a move.

I would add you don't know when your schedule is for emergency and the like. You also want to be able to just ignore your games when you get swamped with life, the universe and everything.

Clearly, since out of the 100s of other correspondence sites the only one that does agree with you is chess.com who does so because they can't figure out how to program this mechanic argues the majority like vacation. I can't imagine any argument against it. Because you know when your vacation is actually an argument FOR it. Why would that be an argument against it? This allows more games to be played. I was only able to play 40 games in almost a years time instead of closer to 150 because of not being able to take on games for SEVEN months time as a result of no vacation days.

jsnyder
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Post by jsnyder » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:34 am

I'd say you are in an extreme minority of taking a whole month of vacation at one time.

Also with the liberal 30days +2day increment.. you can easily accomodate a 2-3 week absense and still be able to play. A 30 day absense would be pushing it but still maneageable if you check the site every day, you will easily build up over 40 to 50 days of reserve time going into your vacation as long as you don't start any in June.

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:32 am

Ummmmmmmmmmm isn't the Feature already on the challenge? I believe it's called time controls

gmiller
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Post by gmiller » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:42 am

I haven't really checked other CC sites, this was the only CC site when I started it so I didn't have anything to go by. But from what I've seen most of them do not have configurable time controls like this site. There is no need to stop playing, you just need to pick a time control that doesn't require you to be around a great deal of the time.

With the default time of 30+2d, you could take your vacation as long as you didn't start any games immediately before it. And if you had been letting 2 days tick off your clock for each move, you could easily build up time by moving more often before your vacation.

For people playing games with no increment like 30+0 or 60+0, they actually want the games to finish in that time period. If I allow vacation time, I'd be doubling the time the game would take.

Looking at your games, it looks like you'll loose a few on time that were started fairly recently. In that case, after the games time out and your back from vacation just let me know and I'll adjust your rating back to where it was. But your opponents will still get credit for a win. It doesn't look like any really interesting games will be affected since most of them just started.
Greg Miller

dparmet
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Post by dparmet » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:43 am

I won't be losing any on time i'll handle those games (in fact already have). This was not a subject about me personally but about immensely improving this site.

timecontrols are NOT vacation time. And no one said you need to expand vacation time to 60 days 14 is plenty. I don't understand how the game lasting longer because someone used their vacation hurts someone?

So far no one is providing rational against this concept, all I hear is the echo of "I don't want to improve this site."

The bottom line is this: if you want more players to join this site or make it their primary site it needs vacation time.

This will become my third site where I play no more than one tournament at a time from now because of lack of this crucial feature.

ghorn
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Post by ghorn » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:41 pm

I have been playing on this site since 2001. I have never seen the need for vacation time.

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:44 pm

So your saying time controls of 30d=2d isn't enough? Wow where is that place of work that I can get that much vaca time. Nor do i see how adding that "feature" improves the site.

cliff
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Post by cliff » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:29 pm

I can see this topic quickly turning into a war, and I hope that's not the case here. I'm not exactly an "old-timer" here, just approaching two years as a matter of fact, but I've only had two time-out forfeits out of some 500+ games, and both were my fault! I had neglected to notice the 2d+0d time controls, and it was a rare weekend when I didn't check moves for 2 days.
So it happens. My having vacation time or not having vacation time wouldn't have changed those losses.

I like to plan my tournaments, right down to the time controls, start date, number and choice of players, and games each. I start planning these at least a month in advance, and since I prefer to carry only 15-20 games at one time, I estimate how long each current game will take, and how many other thournments/matches I can play up till my planned tournament starts. This way, I have pretty much perfect control over my time. I normally leave about 3-4 days to spare for emergencies. That works for me. I consider it taking responsiblity for my own games, and without the vacation time works fine for me!

Also, look at some players, such as mluka. He's been here since well nigh the inception of Net-Chess, and has, I believe, zero time forfeits! There are many more, I'm certain. And I know his time is ridiculously occupied!


In my humble opinion,
although a vacation time would be a nice convenience for some players, it's far, far from a needed feature at this time.

Given my picks for added features would be modifions to starting tournaments, and as Brian (islanderfan) suggested once, the Flag of the players' countries beside their names on the game screen in a little GIF, os something like that.

So, everyone has their wishes for improvement, but overall, this site, again in my humble opinion, is better than the rest because of it's members. I picked Net-Chess after testing out "Red-Hot Pawn", "Chess.com", and "Stans' Net-Chess". SNC, while a close second to Net-Chess in friendliness, seems to lack a certain, smooth, feel to the menus and screens that Net-Chess. That's what helped me to decide to test Net-Chess more. But it was the players, and the rapport which kept me here.

So, vacation tme or no vacation time, why worry? Enjoy the fun, and schedule games here just a little bit better. Although I look forward to playing you, I'll remember you're not free until around Christmas, and do the same, and schedule tournaments around you time...if you see what I mean...?

Anyway, that's my thought on the matter for what it's worth.


- Cliff


(P.S.) In other words, I didn't express one. Guess my political background is showing.....

:D :D :D

dparmet
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Post by dparmet » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:09 am

well at least you're civil (the first person to be so).

The honest answer is there are just plain better sites. ficgs.com iccf.com uscf.com lss redhotpawn and more. The list is endless. And as long as there is no vacation here, they will permanently be better.

FICGS is my main site. They have strong players, perfect interface, rules, features and an web coder that listens to passionately every word someone mentions to him. But it has a limit of 50 games so I needed a second site. I was hoping to make this my second site but without vacation time thats not possible. So i'll play a few games here sure but nothing much and nothing serious. 20 at most more likely 5-6 in the long run. I'll use LSS instead which though it has a bad interface at least has vacation - one of the most essential if not the MOST essential feature of a correspondence site.

At any rate, I'm confused why you guys keep talking about the timecontrols. These are not related to vacation.

Vacation works like so. Hey I have 2 days on my clock, I have time this weekend to get to the game - i'll be fine. Oh hey, death in the family, I have to go out of town last minute to a rural town that has no internet. On top of that, work presented me an emergency deadline that requires overtime. I am now swamped and will flag in an easily won position unless.... tada I activate my vacation time for 2 days. Extending a game 2 days should not horribly throw off your opponents scheduling that you like to do. The end result is a win win. You will attract stronger players here and MORE players because you have added the most basic and crucial feature of any correspondence site period. Correspondence for most people is a secondary priority and needs to be able to set aside when things come up.

If people are so DEAD set against vacation time (I still don't understand why anyone would be?) just add it as LSS does. Mark it as an option when you create or join a tournament such that the creator does not want people to be able to go on vacation for this tournament. Then if vacation is activated, all games except tournaments with this flag will be put to stopping the clock. Remember a key feature of vacation time is you can't end it early. So you'll never get those days back. Even if you issue just 7 days vacation time with this flag in effect .... I think you will see a noticable change in membership. All my ficgs friends ask me why I play here since there is no vacation time they refuse to -- thats what brought me up to bring this essential thing up to you guys in the first place.

joelag
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No Need for Vacations

Post by joelag » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:00 pm

First let me admit that I've been confused after my first exploring of this site when I detected that there wouldn't be a rule or option for vacations.

But the solution is quite easy. Indeed you can have vacations as long as you want by using the proper time control:

Let it be that x days + y days per move is the time control you desire. Let it be that z days is the amount of vacation you'd like to have.

Since you aren't forced to enter any match you are free to only enter those matches with time controls of x + z days (or more) + y days per move. This guarantes that you always have z more days than you think that you require for the match. Just be so kind to call those z days vacation.
Last edited by joelag on Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

dparmet
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Re: No Need for Vacations

Post by dparmet » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:21 pm

joelag wrote:First let me admit that I've been confused after my first exploring of this site when I detected that there wouldn't be a rule or option for vacations.

But the solution is quite easy. Indeed you can have vacations as long as you want by using the proper time control:

Let it be that x days + y days per move is the time control you desire. Let it be that z days is the amount of vacation you'd like to have.

Since you aren't forced to enter any match you are free to only enter those matches with time controls of x + z days (or more) + y days per move. This guarantess that you always have z more days than you think that you require for the match. Just be so kind to call those z days vacation.
I'm confused what you are proposing here? 1) Are you proposing the exact thing I just proposed? -or- 2) Are you still in the illogical category of the people that don't understand vacation time and time controls are separate issues.


I humble request that Islanderfan's post be removed yet again. The man is not civil.

marandreo
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Post by marandreo » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:53 am

Oh boys (? - maybe many of you/us are over 50, eh?)

were it not for the foreign (to me) language, this arena looks perfectly like the Italian parliament: much ado for nothing!!!

If someone does need more time, simply play in/start tournaments with slower time controls, like I do (never timed out! even when ill). 30 days + 4 to 6 day/move spells ETERNITY.

The only thing I can say is that I can't play well in the yearly Net-chess tournaments (some say I can't play well AS A WHOLE, I know they're right but I hate to admit!) because I'm an anxious temper and don't feel safe without a time/move increment. So, I simply avoid playing in these, confident that "There's a whole world of s-l-o-w - p-a-c-e-d tournaments elsewhere in this fantastic site".

Don't get nervous, your woman won't stand it!!! Bye.

P.S: "La parola è d'argento, il silenzio è d'oro" or, as Monteverdi wrote: "Un bel tacer mai scritto fu".

cliff
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Post by cliff » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:04 pm

marandreo wrote:Oh boys (? - maybe many of you/us are over 50, eh?)

were it not for the foreign (to me) language, this arena looks perfectly like the Italian parliament: much ado for nothing!!!

If someone does need more time, simply play in/start tournaments with slower time controls, like I do (never timed out! even when ill). 30 days + 4 to 6 day/move spells ETERNITY.
Thank you Marandreo!

That's what Joelag and I said to start this whole thing!
:)

jsnyder
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Post by jsnyder » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:35 pm

Personally I think G/15 + 1 Day is plenty slow enough for me.. but.. since I know things and vacations do come up.. I plan accordingly and Play G/30 + 2 day. That way I have 14 days vacation built in.. plus an extra day per move if I take other days off from work or don't log in from home on the weekends. Problem solved!

gmiller
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Post by gmiller » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:44 pm

I just had to delete a lot more posts, some inappropriate, others off-topic regarding definitions. Maybe some didn't have to be deleted, I really didn't read all of them.

Seriously, I've only had to ban two people from the forum for the entire 13 years this site has been up, and we'll get a couple more if stuff like that happens again. I really don't have time to monitor this forum every minute, if someone posts something you don't like, ignore it and I'll eventually get to it.
Greg Miller

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Re: No Need for Vacations

Post by gmiller » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:58 pm

dparmet wrote:I'm confused what you are proposing here? 1) Are you proposing the exact thing I just proposed? -or- 2) Are you still in the illogical category of the people that don't understand vacation time and time controls are separate issues.
Yes, time controls and vacation time are two completely different things. But a long time control can make vacation time unnecessary. If you're playing with the default time control of 30d+2d and end up with only two days on your clock (as in your example), then you've certainly already gone a long time not making moves. You could easily average only 2 moves a week and still take a longer vacation than most people in the world are allowed.

As I said previously, I don't play at all on other sites anymore, so I'm not familiar with the time controls they have. But the ones I had looked at require moves to be made at certain intervals, like once per week. Under such time controls vacation time is an absolute requirement.
Greg Miller

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:40 pm

Then why delete my last post about be deleted!!!!!!!

cliff
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Post by cliff » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:40 pm

gmiller wrote:I just had to delete a lot more posts, some inappropriate, others off-topic regarding definitions. Maybe some didn't have to be deleted, I really didn't read all of them.

Seriously, I've only had to ban two people from the forum for the entire 13 years this site has been up, and we'll get a couple more if stuff like that happens again. I really don't have time to monitor this forum every minute, if someone posts something you don't like, ignore it and I'll eventually get to it.
Understood, Greg.

Perhaps I may disagree with your decisions on some posts, yes, some where becoming childish near the end, by both he and I, but I do think that several were deleted wrongly

But, since I love the people I've met here so much, I intend to stay here.
However, on any issue remotely controversial here, I shall remain silent.
Thanks (And I mean this honestly though!) for the dilegence anyway! You run a GREAT site, my friend!

:?

- Cliff

dparmet
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Re: No Need for Vacations

Post by dparmet » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:01 pm

gmiller wrote:
dparmet wrote:I'm confused what you are proposing here? 1) Are you proposing the exact thing I just proposed? -or- 2) Are you still in the illogical category of the people that don't understand vacation time and time controls are separate issues.
Yes, time controls and vacation time are two completely different things. But a long time control can make vacation time unnecessary. If you're playing with the default time control of 30d+2d and end up with only two days on your clock (as in your example), then you've certainly already gone a long time not making moves. You could easily average only 2 moves a week and still take a longer vacation than most people in the world are allowed.

As I said previously, I don't play at all on other sites anymore, so I'm not familiar with the time controls they have. But the ones I had looked at require moves to be made at certain intervals, like once per week. Under such time controls vacation time is an absolute requirement.
Thanks, I appreciate your response. I wish you the best with the site but it just doesn't suit my needs so as multiple people on this site already requested: I will head elsewhere when my 14 games finish.

I won't be responding anymore in this issue as it will only encourage the type of behavior that you've already had to moderate to ensue.

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:00 pm

buh bye hope the door hits you on the way out

gmiller
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Post by gmiller » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:32 am

cliff wrote:Perhaps I may disagree with your decisions on some posts, yes, some where becoming childish near the end, by both he and I, but I do think that several were deleted wrongly
I agree, but there were so many that needed to be deleted I really didn't bother to take the time to read every one.
Greg Miller

jsnyder
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Post by jsnyder » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:01 am

greg has more patience than me. I am/have been Admin/Moderator on several Boards and some people would already be muzzled. (o:

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:34 pm

Oh did he leave? I do miss his crying

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